Perhaps it was Kevin Rudd's most impossible dream - a submarine fleet to face down China. But while the idea of building 12 of our own big boats is still government policy, experts argue the task is beyond us.
One solution canvassed this week is to go nuclear. The question is whether this would exchange one set of problems for another.
The centrepiece of the 2009 defence white paper was a fleet of 12 new submarines, capable of patrolling off north Asia and equipped with cruise missiles to be used to support US forces in any war with China. They would be conventional submarines and they would be built in South Australia.
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